Communities and the Role of the President Part 2

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Posted and filed under General Articles of Interest, Legal Issues in Spain.

Please see Part 1

The HORIZONTAL LAWS can be found on the internet, however, the community rules can only be obtained from the Administrator or President of your community. These rules cover behaviour, pets etc. in the community.  You also have the right (as an owner) to inspect all the previous years minutes including balance sheets.

One or two points worth mentioning about meetings.

Generally only the President can call a meeting however 25% of the owners combined can legally call a meeting through the Administrator if the President refuses.

A meeting always has two start times or “calls”. For the meeting to be legal on the first “call” 51% of owners must attend to form a quorum. As this very rarely happens the law states that any number of owners form a quorum when a second meeting is arranged but that this meeting must be at least thirty minutes after the first call. Therefore when you are invited to an A.G.M. it will have “First Call” and “Second Call” times. The second call being thirty minutes after the first and the time the meeting will start.

As mentioned it is possible under this system for two or three owners to steer the community in a direction to suit them which may not suit you, so again the message is participating in person or by proxy.

Unless the community has vastly different sizes of homes most owners coefficients will be similar enough that a simple majority vote will decide. The condition is one owner one vote (not one vote per apartment). Strictly speaking a proposal can only be passed if it has a majority of owners and coefficients however if a situation occurs when a majority of coefficients (for example the builder may still own half the community so has 50% of the coefficients but only one vote) is for a proposal and a majority of owners are against he can not force through his proposal because both criteria are not met.

What else will I have to pay?

To the community, nothing else, only your community charges and any one-offs agreed at a meeting.

I.B.I. is, more or less, local rates and is charged once a year (Between 15th March and 22nd May)

Tasa Basura. Is for rubbish collection and is taken twice a year (Between 24th April to 30th June and 3rd July to 17th September)

It is better to ask your solicitor to set up direct debits for all the above plus your electric and water charges, he/she should do this automatically as it is included in his fees which are always a fixed percent. If you go back later and ask him/her you may be charged again. When they are set up it is hassle free as long as you keep money in your account. Even if only one payment is missed the companies will not try again and you may find your water or electric cut off for a bill you missed last year or an old I.B.I.

When they are set up it is hassle free as long as you keep money in your account. Even if only one payment is missed the companies will not try again and you may find your water or electric cut off for a bill you missed last year or an old I.B.I. bill that attracts interest at 10% if not paid.

Tips.

Before you buy do make sure there is no debt on the property. If you are taking a mortgage then the bank will have checked. If your solicitor says it is all debt free ask if they have checked:

Community Charges
Debt on Apartment (Nota Simple)
Taxes (I.B.I. etc)
Utilities

Do go and talk to the President before you buy. He / She will probably have lived in Spain for a while and can give you lots of tips. If the President is Spanish (and you can’t speak Spanish) then ask if he can suggest an English resident to speak to. Remember if the majority of owners are one nationality it will greatly influence the way the community is run. The owners are the community.

Ask what language is used at meetings and in written communication. If the owners vote for Chinese then Chinese it is with no obligation to translate (although the official meeting minutes must be filed in Spanish).

We are happy to explain when buying a property how this works and if you require assistance with purchasing then please let us know: enquiries@spanishsolutions.net (Amanda) and we will be delighted to explain how everything works. 

 

 

42 Comments

  • Brian

    Can an owner on a community who’s also the paid gardener be president or is there a conflict of interest?

    • Nicola Ryan

      Afternoon Brian,

      There should be no reason why the same person can not be president and gardener, as long as it has been won via a vote at an AGM.

      Kind regards
      Nicola

  • Kevin Connell

    We had an AGM at which no votes were held despite a specific request by a resident to have a vote on removing the administrator. The administrator claimed they had been elected for three years which was extended because of covid and that they could not be removed by a vote. Is this correct? We are now trying to organise an EGM and they have declared our attempts illegal and refuse to action the EGM. We have a mover for the EGM and more than 25% of residents writing a letter to support the move. The administrator is threatening legal action against us should the EGM go ahead and we vote to remove them. They claim they can sue us for breach of contract and we we will also have to pay two sets of administrator fees this year. The President has her own reasons for not supporting the move.

    • Amanda Thomas

      Dear Kevin, I am sorry but this is too complex for an answer on a web comment. You should probably engage a local lawyer and meet regarding this issue. With kind regards

  • Kevin

    Our urbanisation has no habitation certificate due to Tecnologia going bust before the urbanisation had finished. A previous president arranged for us to get individual house certificates to mitigate the problem although we still don’t receive any post. Now that the urbanisation is finally finished should we be pursuing the issue of the Habitation certificate? What difference does it make not having one.

    • Nicola Ryan

      Thank you for your enquiry Kevin,

      If each property now has a habitation certificate, there would be no need for another. Each habitation certificate is valid for 10 years, depending on the age of your property/community a new habitation may be needed anyway.

      It would be impossible to pursue a company that has gone into liquidation for habitation certificates.

      We hope this helps.
      Kind regards
      Nicola

  • Neal

    Interesting website thank you.
    Our AGM was in April 2022 and we found out that pool repairs were going to cost €25,000 despite there being no mention of this in the Agenda. The President stated this as a warning for next years (2024) community fees, when we were discussing next years (2023) fees
    I and other owners objected to this, asking what quotes had been obtained and why we had not been advised on this beforehand. (Our President refuses to email out details of the committee meetings, preferring to post basic details of their committee meetings on the notice board by the pool. Where it says the pool would be re-grouted at a cost of €12,000) During the meeting the administrator told us that only one quote was obtained and if they had got more the cost would increase by 4%
    Since the meeting I (and some neighbours) have emailed the administrators and the President to register our complaints about the way the pool expenditure has been handled. I havent got anywhere, the neighbours havent even had the courtesy of a reply.

    The minutes have now been sent out, which show the pool is now going to cost €40,000 with no mention of the €25,000 which was reluctantly voted on. Plus the minutes do not reflect any of the representations the owners made at the meeting on this and other issues.
    The administrators reply to my complaint about the minutes are simply saying that under horizontal law they do not need to show everything with no explanation about the increase in the cost.
    My questions are:
    1. Should we have been advised of this expenditure before the AGM
    2. Can the President now spend €40,000 without going back to the community.

    Many thanks

    • Amanda Thomas

      Thank you Neal, The Lawyer has said to me ” With this information only I cannot give you a proper answer because I don´t have the “Acta” for the general meeting.However, that agreement will be valid if the notification to celebrate the general meeting, where this proposal was included, was made correctly and if it was voted at the meeting for its approval. If the Community of Owners voted, even if there is only one budget, it is valid.” I advise you to discuss the matter and verify it with the Administrators, With kind regards.

  • Neal

    Issues with our President continue I am afraid.
    With regard to the pool situation above, we spoke to the administrator, who effectively refused to answer my questions. This was two months ago and he still will not tell us the final cost of the pool and the cost of the water to fill it.

    Todays question is that we held a meeting of residents at the weekend. Prior to this the President instructed the administrator to telephone the daily pool security guard.
    During the conversation he was instructed to police the gate and only allow 1 person access per gate fob.
    Fobs are issued 1 per house, meaning a husband and wife could not attend.
    The administrator also telephoned me, but the story was different, only that people had to use their gate fobs.

    Can a President and Administrator collude to prevent access to the community pool?
    Thanks

    • Amanda Thomas

      Dear Neal, I am sorry but I don’t quite understand but you are entitled to use the pool. You should complain to the Administrator. With kind regards

  • Briggs

    Last years minuets only recorded the points in the agenda and not anything discussed in any other business. Which is unhelpful for those owners not in attendance. Can I ask/insist that the AGM minutes include all points discussed ?

    • Amanda Thomas

      Good morning, Just contact the Administrators to discuss, Kind regards

  • Michelle Hammond

    Are fines issued by the community for breaking statues legally enforceable

    • Amanda Thomas

      Good morning, If it was because of a Court case and generally yes, Kind regards.

  • Maurice Dunne

    We have not received any annual accounts since year ending 2018 or had an AGM since January 2019 . The administrator will not share any financial records and will only say that there will be a meeting in a few months. What do we do to resolve this?

    • Amanda Thomas

      Dear Maurice, The General meeting needs to be celebrated each year. The Administrator has the obligation to inform in a legal manner about the time and date of the Annual General Meeting and the questions they are going to discuss and vote. Also the administrator has to inform all the owners formally about the result of the meeting. (For this the owners needs to confirm the administrator their personal contact details). To resolve it, you need to raise this with the Administrator. Kind regards

      If they are not receiving nothing from the administration and at least a legal percentage of the rest of the owners agrees, all of them can asking formally to make a votation in a Community meeting to change the administrator.

  • Dave

    Is it legal for a paid administrator to have owners voted at the AGM it doesn’t seem fair that she has over half owners votes so we never win any votes in the complex surely this is a conflict of interest

    • Amanda Thomas

      Dear Dave, The owners can choose to vote by a representative if they do it in the proper manner. There is not really much that can be done as they choose for someone to represent them. Kind regards

  • Gerry

    Hi, Can you advise that prior to an AGM that the administrators and President must circulates the AGM details first and second call and also provide an Agenda that explains clearly what has been proposed by the individual owners in the community to be discussed and what is to be voted on. Also what percentage of the community must be present to obtain a majority vote on issues and does all items at the AGM require the following The resolutions of the general meeting shall be recorded in a book of minutes stamped and validated by the Land Registrar in accordance with the applicable regulations.
    2. The minutes of each general meeting shall express, at least, the following circumstances:
    a) the date and place of the meeting;
    b) the person having summoned the meeting and, where appropriate, the unit owners who promoted it;
    c) whether it was ordinary or extraordinary and whether it was held on first or on second call;
    d) the roster of those present and their respective offices, as well as unit owners represented;
    e) the agenda for the meeting;
    f) the resolutions adopted, with indication, where relevant for the validity of the resolution, of the names of unit owners who voted in favour and against, as well as the assessment quotas corresponding to each unit owner.
    3 The president and the secretary shall sign the minutes at the end of the meeting or within the following ten days. Once the minutes are signed, the resolutions shall be in force, unless otherwise provided by law.
    The minutes shall be sent to the unit owners

    • Amanda Thomas

      Dear Gerry, These are matters that should be checked with your Administrator, they are there to guide the Community. With kind regards.

  • Geraldine Whyte

    Good afternoon Amanda
    May I ask a question is it legal for the Administrator to canvass the community for their votes and then use them the way they what to? the reason is When anyone asks the Administrator for information they are branded as trouble makers and how dare they look for any information on the running of our complex the Vice President does the same he goes around canvassing who he thinks will be a yes person ( or Puppet ).
    The vice president sent out an email the other day telling the community a group of people was going around with unsubstantiated rumours , slanderous Allegations, and insinuations are been said about the Administrator and Committee ( now really we do not have a proper committee it consists of a President who is not in FUE a Vice President and the Administrator who acts as a secretary also.
    the group has been trying to get answers from the Administrator and she will not answer them also the Vice president has put in writing that they will not answer any questions from the 6 owners other than about their accounts and the internet because they feel the people are constantly complaining and are trying to undermine the Committee administrator and Maintenance man. I feel people have a right and I have given up because they have branded me as a troublemaker over the years. I don’t engage with them because our last AGM in January 2019 was discussing the click who are their friends started abusing people it was discussing I just walked out and after they were all down at a little Restaurant but I was there before one couple who came along and started making fun of me until the other 2 sets of the couple told them to be quiet and looked down and I stood up and waved at them. please please have they a right to use all the proxy Votes even know people have not stated who they are to vote for their behalf

    • Amanda Thomas

      Dear Geraldine, I am sorry to have this. A proxy vote is given to someone else to act on their behalf, so yes if they are given in the agreed format by the Community or previously used format, yes they will be valid. Kind regards.

  • Jim Jones

    We have received fully audited Accounts and Budgets for aprox 30 years, we then had a new President who decided without any owners vote to change our old Company and brought in a Unregistered Administrator, who to date has not had or produced any Accounts Certified or Auditted. and Budgets based on there opinion, the President calls meetings at very short notice, so very few owners turn up, and they then claim approval of large amounts of money, that do not have any Estimates for, and we requested the minutes and approval with Budgets for the last year, to date we have received nothing, just more demands for money with thrests of Court Action, if we do not pay whatever they demand,and we are very concerned that any Court would approve a claim with no certified proof of its accuracy, as owners are all over the world and we have no means of contact we are unable to canvass and explain all the problems to them, needless to say many are being taken to Court and we understand that one person had a Judgement against him, this does not look like any form of justice, and reading some of your other complaints we think this law should be looked at and only Registered Administrators allowed to handle owners finances, with all owners receiving certified Accounts as proof that there property and investments are financially safe, as this system is wide open to abuse, any comments welcome

    • Amanda Thomas

      Dear Jim, We agree that this does seem a very difficult situation. We are not sure how we can help. If you are local and wish to engage a lawyer please let us know in September after the Summer break. With kind regards.

  • Margaret Taylor

    Great site. Thank you.
    It is our AGM this Saturday and I asked for something to be put in the agenda a week ago. However the administrator has informed me today that it is to late to add it now and also, there won’t be enough time. Is this correct? Many thanks

    • Amanda Thomas

      Hi Margaret, I have spoken to our lawyer and the law does not establish any concrete time limitation to asking or including points in the AGM after you have received the formal notification for it. It only says the owner must communicate the points she wishes to add, in writing sent to the administrator. So this is something you need to try and agree with them, I am sorry, With kind regards

  • Helen Tiltman

    Very informative site, thank you
    I have a question in relation to the publication of the AGM minutes. Our AGM was on the 3rd October. I have been chasing up now via emails with the president and the administrator as to when the minutes will be sent out. The administrator is totally ignoring my emails. I thought that the minutes had to be published within 10 days. We have a very small community of only 9 villas, the AGM was total carnage with all of us having disagreements with both president and administrator hence why we are all chasing up for the minutes eager to see what has been written up. Could you please advise as to the timeframe of when minutes should be sent out to the community

    • Amanda Thomas

      Dear Helen, It is normally around 10 working days, Kind regards

  • Peter

    Hi Can we have a vice president that has a property business on the complex ( Estate Agents ) or is there a conflict of interest in his appointment

    • Amanda Thomas

      Dear Peter, If the Vice President is an owner on the Community, there is not a problem. With kind regards.

  • arno

    We are in a condominium in marbella with 64 townhouses and 90% are EU and middle east owners. Can we vote to proceed with English language for meetings and minutes avoiding life translation during meetings. I did understand that minutes (OCTA) will need an official Spanish version anyway. If yes, what text need to be voted in the next AGM ? thanks you

    • Nicola Ryan

      Thank you for your enquiry Arno,

      This would be a question for your administrator.

      Kind regards
      Nicola

  • Martin Poole

    We have recently held our Community AGM, the Administrator failed to arrive so we conducted the meeting without him being present.
    Is the meeting legal and binding without an Administrator.

    • Amanda Thomas

      Dear Martin, Yes, it is. Because any other owner can act as administrator- secretary. With kind regards.

  • John Hodgson

    I put an item forward for our AGM, this was to change the current Balustrades to the chrome post and glass. The President was so against this prior to the AGM, that she changed the wording so it would not get voted for. By this I mean, every item on the agenda / voting slip, was Do you agree, my item was Do you reject, as historically there is a low turn out for voting on the community. If an household does not vote, it automatically goes as a yes you agree, so she knew it would fail to get passed, I challenged this, but she refused to change it, as she said she was doing it in the interest of the community. I asked for the item to be removed from the agenda, but she refused. Is she allowed to do this? Thank You

    • Amanda Thomas

      Dear John, Please contact your Administrators with this enquiry. With kind regards.

  • Lore

    Hi,
    I was wondering if the timeframe of 10 days to send out the minutes of the meeting, only apply to the AGM or also to the EGM?
    Thank you very much for your answer.
    Kind regards

    • Nicola Ryan

      Afternoon Lore,

      This would be a question for your administrator.

      Kind regards
      Nicola

  • Chris S

    Our new president has hired her friend at an EGM to be our new administration company. They are unregistered and unqualified and this is their first time as administrator.

    The president refuses to answer emails from owners asking valid questions around how this new administrator won over the other company that allegedly put a bid in. We believe they other company doesn’t exist.

    Must the president answer questions from owners? Must they provide the quote from the other admin company, there never been named.

    • Nicola Ryan

      Thank you for your enquiry Chris,

      The change of the administrator needs to be voted in formally and by a valid General Meeting. The owners can ask for a new EGM (group of owners who represent 10% of the quote of the community) and ask all the questions.

      The president should answer all questions included in the meeting agenda. We hope this helps.

      Nicola

  • Stuart

    We have a community of 8 and currently have a tied vote on the issue of putting a pool net next to the pool. How does this get resolved . Thanks

    • Amanda Thomas

      Dear Stuart, In general, tied votes mean the motion is not approved. The President of the community does not have a casting vote unless specifically granted in the community’s statutes or rules (estatutos or normas internas). The matter can be revisited in a future meeting for another vote. If it’s truly a safety issue, it may not need approval—check with your community administrator.

      You may raise the issue again in a future meeting or revise the proposal (e.g., suggest a different type of safety measure). With kind regards.

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